Curse

Showtime · Sep 21, 2011, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Until they fix rangers it's almost moot. You can use a bow in hm, but would be more efficient using a gimmick build like SOS ranger or AP build with a good team of heros.
Generally I use a staff, or shield with spear, etc.

What bow to use obviously depends on your playing style. I use recurves (vamp/zealous) and dragos for pulling or with rtw etc. I've found that being a Ranger means we are not taken seriously in pve. No need to use a distance bow except for pulling. Especially if you have skills like dodge or WD on bar. Aggroing at corners/walls some mobs can be splintered barraged with a vamp bow while they are trying to get past you. Throw up WD etc and go to town. Almost like you are tanking though it's more them not targeting rangers I think. Unfortunately, it can all go the shit so easily.

Back in the day, recurves were said the be the best for what rangers did... Interrupting, damage, and condition spreading. In my limited testing they seemed to work better than short bows so I switched over. Since then some people have insisted hornbows are better with their inherent sundering. Sundering was considered weak like it was with other weapons. So I never gave them much of a chance and then we got nerfed. So if bows interest you, try your builds and test with different bows. Then tweak and test again. Bows are cheap and so are mods so it wont cost more than 6k to build a perfect whatever bow of a common skin. I think I have a mule full of them and around 15+ customized bows that mostly stay on another mule.

Oh and the best bow in the game is my Eternal r8 14>50. It's gone every place in the game, though it might not have been used everywhere.

Wenspire · Sep 21, 2011, 03:23 AM // 03:23

"I don't believe so, at least I never noticed. No mention of it on the Ivory Bow wiki either. Any idea which campaign you're thinking of?"

I think it's by trading in the Book of Secrets after finishing NF campaign. This is the ivory skin, right?

Showtime · Sep 21, 2011, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

"I don't believe so, at least I never noticed. No mention of it on the Ivory Bow wiki either. Any idea which campaign you're thinking of?"

I think it's by trading in the Book of Secrets after finishing NF campaign. This is the ivory skin, right?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/a/a...en_Flatbow.jpg

I may have a book of secrets or a r9-10 inscribable ivory bow wasting space in storage somewhere. Msg me here if you want it.

Amy Awien · Sep 21, 2011, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Regarding the ivory bow skin, doesn't one of the green campaign reward bows use that skin for every class of bow available? if so, you could always pick up one of those.

See the Notes section on Ivory Bow

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Splinter Barrage

... what is the advantage of a shortbow over a flatbow? ...

Higher arrow speed means it is not as easily dodged as the flatbow and it is usable for interrupts (although not as suitable as the recurve). The shorter range will also bring you into shouting range of your target, and probably your frontliners as well

Splinter Barrage · Sep 21, 2011, 07:48 AM // 07:48

One unexpected benefit of using a shortbow is that enemy melees tend to group around me. This is wonderful, since I can use Throw Dirt and/or Whirling Defense to render them all inoperative, then splinter barrage them all to death.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

So I never gave them much of a chance and then we got nerfed.

Unfortunately I didn't play a Ranger much back then. I really wish I had, it sounds like I missed out.

Splinter Barrage · Sep 21, 2011, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splinter Barrage

Having trouble finding a likeable shortbow skin. ;(

Problem solved: the Azure Shortbow looks pretty sweet.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pew

If you're particularly energy hungry a +5e swap probably won't go wrong.

I have also finally discovered the value of a +5e on my zealous swap. It wasn't my build, but a mesmer hex (noticed too late) which caused me to lose energy every time I attacked, that made the swap necessary. +5 gave me another couple barrages, which in turn yielded another +5 each, and by then the offending Mergoyles were dead.

Anyway, so there's another thing to scratch off that list in my first post (heh). I've learned a lot from my foray into this forum. Thanks again everyone!

Goes to show you that no amount of solo experience compares to the communal sharing of knowledge. Perhaps if there were more rangers in my guild I could have avoided some embarrassment. ^.^

Mintha Syl · Sep 21, 2011, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Regarding the ivory bow skin, doesn't one of the green campaign reward bows use that skin for every class of bow available? if so, you could always pick up one of those.

Droknar's flatbow, hornbow and longbow. The other 2 bow classes from there use the halfmoon skin instead, but I think these are the endgame rewards you were referring to.

Quaker · Sep 21, 2011, 02:51 PM // 14:51

It's the Droknar's Weapons (bows) you get from completing EotN that have the Ivory bow skin, dyed green.

Quote:

Having trouble finding a likeable shortbow skin. ;(

My favourite is the "Shortbow" skin. Common as dirt, but it's the best looking. I use Ashlyn's Shortbow - which is basically a Shortbow skin dyed black.
http://www.guildwiki.org/Ashlyn%27s_Shortbow

Splinter Barrage · Sep 21, 2011, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

My favourite is the "Shortbow" skin.

That's what I'm using on my swap. I believe it's actually the Composite Shortbow skin http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Composite_Shortbow, though I have seen some bows with it labeled simply "Shortbow." Didn't much care for the default purplish red as it doesn't really go with anything, but dyes do have interesting effects in the right combinations.

Still a very plain, very small bow, but not ugly at least.

Wenspire · Sep 21, 2011, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splinter Barrage

That's what I'm using on my swap. I believe it's actually the Composite Shortbow skin http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Composite_Shortbow, though I have seen some bows with it labeled simply "Shortbow." Didn't much care for the default purplish red as it doesn't really go with anything, but dyes do have interesting effects in the right combinations.

Still a very plain, very small bow, but not ugly at least.

If you like bows that go with your Dryad armor, you may want to take a look at the Bramble Shortbow or even a Bladed Recurve Bow.

My personal fav shortbow skins are the BMP's Charr Shortbow and Halfmoons.

ashes · Sep 21, 2011, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Gw lacks good looking flatbows imo... ironwing is the only decent one

Wenspire · Sep 21, 2011, 09:12 PM // 21:12

As much as I hate to say it, the Tormented Flat Bow looks very nice to me (the animation being one reason). Goes really good when coupled with Obsidian Armor.

Splinter Barrage · Sep 22, 2011, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

I switch between four based on situation in battle. 1) sundering long bow during travelling and when I want to land the first hit in a stationary mob (using splinter), 2) I have a short vamp bow when attacking a single target, 3) short zealous used during battle the majority of time, 4) zealous flat for pulling (long flight time makes it ideal for this role).

That is ingenious. I'm doing the first three myself now, and loving it. I can also see how a flat would be better for pulling as you say (more time to swap/apply Splinter), so I think I just found a use for my 4th slot again.

Thanks for the tip! I have a couple questions regarding the choice of zealous, however.

First, I'm wondering why you'd use it for the pull: I usually wait till I'm fully recovered from any previous fight before pulling, so I have full energy; I also just use a regular shot to do it, so I don't lose any energy; thus zealous wouldn't be doing anything. Since I don't want to be degen'd yet, and probably won't be spreading a condition either, I'd think sundering would be most useful, as on the longbow.

Second, why do you prefer zealous over vamp for normal combat? I know it's great to be constantly gaining all that energy, but I've only found it necessary during long fights, and thus I relegated mine to a swap. Vamp hits harder and, with the excellent refire rate of a shortbow, ends fights sooner, so I've preferred it for that reason. I'm just curious to know why it's the other way around for you. Any particular reason?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Higher arrow speed means it is not as easily dodged as the flatbow and it is usable for interrupts (although not as suitable as the recurve). The shorter range will also bring you into shouting range of your target, and probably your frontliners as well

All true! I found out how significant the increased accuracy was, and discovered some unexpected benefits of being closer to my targets as well, after doing a little more testing. I never thought this day would come, but I officially love shortbows!

Wenspire · Sep 22, 2011, 08:02 PM // 20:02

I forgot to mention I use the zealous flat bow in battle if by chance there is favorable winds up. That's the reason why it is a zealous mod. Reason I use a zealous on my main short bow is because the build I use that focuses on barrage/volley spam (under 33% IAS) with external buffs (splinter from sos rit, orders from my necro). Since the main damage is coming from the buffs, I just have to focus on delivering as much AoE attacks as fast as possible.

The group-build I run focuses on AoE; for single target spiking I would be using something else rather than a zealous mod (one reason why I switch to my vamp bow when attacking single targets).

Splinter Barrage · Oct 25, 2011, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splinter Barrage

If anyone can find a weapon/skill combination that outperforms this setup against mobs in PvE, I would be keenly interested to hear of it.

For anyone else interested, I may have found one myself.

Barrage was limited by incompatibility with preparations, which always made me sad, so lately I've been experimenting with other possible methods of inflicting AoE damage with bow attacks. The current winner is Ignite Arrows combined with Incendiary Arrows/Triple Shot/Dual Shot. Those attacks not only multiply the explosions from Ignite, they also multiply vampiric damage; and Ignite itself is buffed by Ebon Battle Standard (Splinter wasn't). Etc.--not going to post a whole build here, just felt like publicly shaming my formerly overconfident self again.

Damn, I'm going to have to change my account name.

Wenspire · Oct 25, 2011, 10:40 PM // 22:40

The damage is nice on the first shot. But after that, you will have to deal with the massive enemy scatter as well as each time you strike an enemy.

BogusDude · Oct 26, 2011, 03:52 PM // 15:52

When making a bow i would always go with +5 armour over +30Hp. Pretty much every endgame bow has an inherrant +30HP mod on it so you get plenty from them and you don't need a calculator to work out +5arm damage reduction is gonna be more beneficial in a drawn out fight and save alot more DoT than 30HP.

My usual prefix is a zealous because i tend to go with builds requiring energy, even my splinter barrage build, with i am the strongest, PI, summon djinn (just cos i like it lol). To constantly spam SB, PI and maintain my Djinn i need more energy.

As for inscriptions, again +15^50 mods are ten to penny on end game weaps and greens and as i tend to go with zealous and energy builds i go with +5e insc. I get less damage than a 15^50 vamp/sund bow? so what about when you've run out of energy to maintain splinter and i am the strongest? My damage output has overtaken you easily.

I used to be a big fan of the Flatbow but have leaned towards Longbows and shortbows in the last few years. tbh your build, armour level, positional awareness, foe group composition awareness, etc will have far more meaning than whether that damage number is 21 or 22 or w/e.

People say you should have an assortment of different weaps, which to some extent is true, but in reality you will likely find that you never use the majority of them, ever. So i would suggest reviewing your collection periodically and lightening up your load where you can as an extra inv slot can be far more useful than some fancy bow you've never used and probably never will.

Windbow · Oct 26, 2011, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splinterbarrage

Splinter Weapon + Barrage + Vampiric Hornbow = highest DPS to groups (for a Ranger at least). I've seen the numbers and counted the seconds, and I'd bet money on it. That said, if anyone can find a weapon/skill combination that outperforms this setup against mobs in PvE, I would be keenly interested to hear of it.

Imho R/A daggers with escape outperforms splinter weapon when using a balling style. Splinter+the quick attacks are a big spike (stick splinter on hero ftw) and daggers is much better cleanup. R/A gives you the possibility to DC into those mobs that ball themselves every 20 sec. I think you should always built a full synchronized team instead of subpar bars taking care of themselves.

Splinter Barrage · Oct 27, 2011, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

The damage is nice on the first shot. But after that, you will have to deal with the massive enemy scatter as well as each time you strike an enemy.

It doesn't happen all that often, but I actually like when it does, since if they're running away they're not fighting back. Gives heroes extra time to heal, and you can always finish off individual targets by spamming Needling Shot, for example. Or if they were weak enough when you fired your last Incendiary, you can even completely ignore them while they burn to death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogusDude

I get less damage than a 15^50 vamp/sund bow? so what about when you've run out of energy to maintain splinter and i am the strongest? My damage output has overtaken you easily.

[. . .]

People say you should have an assortment of different weaps[.]

5 extra energy may give you one or two more shots, but that's about it. I include a +5e on my zealous swap, which I switch to if it's a long fight and the situation arises where I do indeed run low on energy. That rarely happens though. +15% +5 (from 15^50 and vamp) ends fights sooner. And the extra damage adds up with every shot.

Since you have four weapon sets, and five inventory slots in even the smallest equipment pack (and as much as 20 if you get a larger one), and EQ packs can't hold anything but weapons and armor anyway, I think it's a great idea to bring multiple bows. The mistake I made before coming to this forum and reading the valuable advice here, was I was looking for "the perfect bow"; I have since realized that there is no single bow for all occasions. Rather, a combination is always going to be better. Hence I carry a sundering longbow between fights/when pulling, switch to a vampiric shortbow once the fight takes off, and swap to a zealous shortbow later in the fight if I need it. (I find that sundering swap equally important for zealous as for vampiric, since zealous makes your energy regenerate more slowly between fights.) It's nice to have options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windbow

I think you should always built a full synchronized team instead of subpar bars taking care of themselves.

The only thing I question here is the word "always." What about when you're solo farming? It's nice to have a build or two (hurray for templates) that allow you to be fully independent. I'm honestly amazed at the versatility of the Ranger class: I have some builds that don't even use a second profession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogusDude

When making a bow i would always go with +5 armour over +30Hp.

Again I only question the word "always." What about in PvP? If you bring a couple defensive skills such as Whirling Defense and Throw Dirt, you can make it so physical attacks can't touch you. The only thing you have to fear, then, is hexes. And hex spells don't care in the slightest how much armor you have.

A good Mesmer or Necromancer can put 10 pips of degen on you pretty quickly. So, if you already have decent armor insignias, and you know casters are going to pose a greater threat than melee, wouldn't you "always" go with Fortitude?--You see, the tests that "conclusively" prove armor > health don't take everything into account, and honestly 5 armor and 30 health are roughly equivalent anyway. So the only relevant question is whether you fear spells or physical attacks more. Since it's a lot easier to put up a shield than it is to remove a hex from yourself (in the event that you can't interrupt everything), I personally fear spells a lot more, and Fortitude increases the number of seconds I have to get in one last shot, activate my heal and/or run to safety, in situations where Defense does precisely nothing.

Swingline · Oct 27, 2011, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogusDude

As for inscriptions, again +15^50 mods are ten to penny on end game weaps and greens and as i tend to go with zealous and energy builds i go with +5e insc. I get less damage than a 15^50 vamp/sund bow? so what about when you've run out of energy to maintain splinter and i am the strongest? My damage output has overtaken you easily.

I only use S/B when AoE damage is needed like in SE or when there's a sin to ball. If your facing off against a large group of enemies your group should be using tactics to ball for you. A zealous bow is all you really need and by the time you hit 0 energy from 25 the group should be long dead. I have used both 15^50 and +5e and from my testing +5e never mattered because when wielding 15^50 the mobs died by the time I hit 10-15e.

IatS is another meh skill and let me tell you why. The only reason to use it is its a filler skill since there is not much else to use. S/B is where all your damage comes from and you should have 12 in channeling. Besides, EBSoH does more damage in the long run.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

If you like bows that go with your Dryad armor, you may want to take a look at the Bramble Shortbow or even a Bladed Recurve Bow.

My personal fav shortbow skins are the BMP's Charr Shortbow and Halfmoons.

Dryad Bow is the best when it comes to the foresty look. Its a recurve bow which means it has the fastest arrow speed with a medium attack speed. Another bow to look at is Urgoz's Longbow. Unfortunately its a green with 20/20